Support what?

I was reading one of my favorite liberal sites yesterday and, of course, the war was mentioned. Someone (I don’t know if they’re male or female) posted an entry called “Why I support the War”. It was a nice post with a video of a soldier coming home from Iraq to surprise his six-year-old son. The son and the father both bawled like babies. It was very moving.

The the conversation turned really, really ugly. I don’t even know what else to call it. You’ll really have to go over there and read some of the comments.

I’d read and heard from Bush conservatives (that is, those idiots that still support that bonehead) that liberals want all the soldiers to die. That they think Americans should just roll over and take an ass kicking…blah ad nauseam. I didn’t believe that there were any liberals that actually thought that way about our soldiers. No one actually thought our soldiers were a bunch of murdering vigilantes out for fun and shoot ‘em up games. Right?

This fucking thread tells me how wrong I was. I was reading this garbage and felt like my head was going to explode.

our troops are also ordinary, everyday human beings who kill people for money.

And not just a few dozen people but hundreds of thousands. Millions by now probably. A vast number of dead. Unimaginably evil. Such people do NOT deserve “respect” they deserve to be opposed utterly.

What aspect of the character of a mass murderer for profit ought I respect please?
by: underpantsgnm @ Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 17:08:00 PM EDT

It’s a question of guilt (2.00 / 3)
Are you saying the troops are mass murderers and people of incredible evil whom you nevertheless “support” meaning you have compassion on them as murderers (eg you wouldn’t want them lynched but rather sent to prison) or are you saying that when American soldiers commit genocide as they have done, it doesn’t count as a crime?

Is your “support the troops” a denial of their guilt?
by: underpantsgnm @ Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 20:04:58 PM EDT

I’ve got a picture (0.00 / 0)
that I saved somewhere of a fifty something Iraqi couple . . . she a grade school teacher, he now a grieving widower. She got “lit up” (quaint way of putting it, eh? how. those. boys. talk.) by some American troops while driving, by herself, by the same route she always drove, at the same time she always drove it, from their home to the school where she worked.

You can place as much “responsibility” for that as you want on George Bush (and it alone is enough to hang him, as far as I’m concerned), but . . .

Hd didn’t do it alone. He didn’t pull the trigger. He never saw the woman. I doubt he’s ever seen the picture.

He’s just not a deep enough vessel to hold all the guilt . . . at least some of it has spilled over.

And there are at least tens, and probably hundreds, of thousands of others like her . . . and like those who killed her.

Do you believe that there were *any* “innocent Americans” at Abu Graib? Anyone who didn’t know what was going on there? How many spoke out? How many does that leave who are just as guilty as the few charged, and the fewer who “ordered” it?

Where’s the responsibility?

by: Deward Hastings @ Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 00:57:43 AM EDT

Denial of guilt (0.20 / 5)
If he was in Iraq he was a part of the criminal conspiracy to invade and occupy Iraq and is equally responsible for all the deaths caused by that collective criminal action.

That is how guilt works. You don’t get to say “I didn’t shoot anyone - I was just driving the getaway car”.

A modern army isn’t a bunch of people waving swords. There is specialisation and everyone cooperates to kill the enemy.

Nobody here has called your husband a monster but he did wilfully help to kill a million people. That is what he is. That decision to commit mass murder is part of who he is and something you have to live with now. In your case by denying it all…..

Your denial is natural but it does help those who promote the war and it promotes further killing. By denying the guilt of this war you help continue it.

by: underpantsgnm @ Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:07:00 PM EDT

Let me be clear. This was mostly just two posters spewing garbage. This isn’t the unified voice of the left.

But… somewhere sometime someone is going to see that thread and they’re going to see what those two had to say about the troops. And all of the left and all Democrats are going to be saddled with the views of just those two (I have honestly never run into anyone else that’s spewed such hate about the soldiers themselves).

It’s just hard for me to imagine that these two people get out and about in their communities, because if they did, they might actually meet some of those “murderers” just getting back from that hell hole over there. And they might have actually spoken to them and gotten to know them as people. Or they might have met the families of some of these guys and gals and gotten an inkling of why these people were enlisted to begin with. I’m pretty sure these two guys spend the majority of their time among people just like them- online. I can’t imagine that it would be easy to find other people in real life that think all of our soldiers are murderers and deserve to die and that all Americans are evil for supporting them. Well, except them. They’re not evil for paying their taxes because they didn’t have a say to where their tax dollars went. But the rest of us are supporting the war and evil because we have compassion for our fellow countrymen/women.

A collective action, but (0.00 / 0)
It’s a collective action of the United States

It is indeed a collective action but not by the whole of the United States. Were you consulted? Did you sign up for the plot? When did you consent? When did you ally yourself with the invasion movement? What part did you play in it? When did you agree to your role?

Look the plain fact is you didn’t play any role in this Stu and neither did the vast majority of Americans — even those who would have joined in if they’d had a chance.

Unless you are advocating thought crime those Americans who did nothing but wish well of the operation to invade Iraq are guilty of nothing but malice. And people like you who opposed it — to call them guilty is to overturn logic and justice. Why accuse people who opposed an action of commiting it?

You are guilty of a crime if and only if you commit the crime. The invasion is a conspiracy. It was more than one man. It was hundreds of thousands. But it was not hundreds of millions.

Do you really think paying tax is an immoral act equivalent to mass murder if you cannot guarantee (and you never can of course) that any part of that money will be misused by powers beyond your ability to control? That’s the same as saying it’s always immoral to pay tax regardless of the government in power.

In any case do you think payment of taxes is somehow voluntary? Like a gift? For the vast majority the tax money is taken at source and there is never any chance to stop it.

Do not confuse your vague feelings of guilt over being born American with the guilt of direct action by soldiers in Iraq — soldiers trained to kill with glee and who share none of your sensitivities. Without these willing servants people like Bush are nothing.
by: underpantsgnm @ Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 18:38:33 PM EDT

I can’t even begin to understand where these two come from in their thought process, but good grief! Try wrapping your head around that one! I swear, I was smoking out of my ears by the time I was done. Good thing that there are enough people over there that realize this war is bullshit, but those people over there are our people and need to come home- safely.

This just really breaks my heart to no end. And what’s worse is someone’s going to run with those posts. Someone’s going to use those posts as evidence that the left hates America and Americans. And they’re going to use it against any candidates that might even vaguely seem left. That sucks ass.

Popularity: 3% [?]

Sphere: Related Content